Transcript: Unearthing the Link Between Climate Change and Extreme Weather
CLARICE: Hello, everybody. Welcome to this week’s episode of Environmentally Speaking.
MARISA: Hi, everyone. I’m Marisa Desautel, an environmental attorney in Rhode Island and Massachusetts.
CLARICE: And I’m Clarice, letting you know that octopod is a suitable plural of octopus.
MARISA: Come again?
CLARICE: Octopod.
MARISA: Octopod, p-o-d?
CLARICE: Yeah. Yeah.
MARISA: That’s the plural of octopus?
CLARICE: I think it’s two O’s, octo o-o-d-e. I learned that this weekend.
MARISA: Wow. Octopus are fascinating creatures, like really fascinating.
CLARICE: Yeah. We watched a whole documentary on them.
MARISA: My Octopus Teacher?
CLARICE: No.
MARISA: That one’s good.
CLARICE: Yeah. It was this — I have to find her name. Oh, goodness. It’s Lindsay and I can’t think of her last name, but she does these semi-short videos where she just does deep dives into animals. And it’s like a creepy animal series on YouTube and she just talks pretty fast and dumps a whole bunch of facts about an animal that she thinks is creepy and interesting. And it was different types of prehistoric octopus or octopod. That’s my fact for today.
MARISA: Thank you for that factoid. What are we talking about today besides octopod?
CLARICE: Nothing to do with octopod. I just really liked that fact.
MARISA: Okay. Everyone write that down.
CLARICE: We are talking about atmospheric rivers.
MARISA: Yeah.
CLARICE: It’s been something that we hear in the news a lot and I wanted to talk about it.
MARISA: Was this your pick, this subject?
CLARICE: It was.
MARISA: Okay.
CLARICE: Yeah.
MARISA: Good. Because I was doing some research on it and could not for the life of me remember why we were talking about this particular topic, so atmospheric river. And when I started reading about them I thought I literally have never heard of this in my life.
CLARICE: Which is exactly why I wanted to talk about it.
MARISA: All right. Hit me with it.
CLARICE: It kept showing up in relation to California and they kept saying California’s atmospheric river. And, well, I knew it was raining in California and I was like, well, what does that mean. Why is that a thing. I needed more context.
MARISA: What is an atmospheric river?
CLARICE: Thank you so much for asking.
MARISA: You’re welcome.
CLARICE: According to NOAA an atmospheric river is a relatively long narrow region in the sky that —
MARISA: In the sky. Wait.
CLARICE: In the sky.
MARISA: In the sky.
CLARICE: Yeah.
MARISA: Okay.
CLARICE: It’s up there. — that transports water vapors out of tropics. So, basically, it’s just a — think of it — or at least I picture it like a wind tunnel moving moisture from one area to another.
[0:03:01] MARISA: Now, is it Marvel superhero kind of water moving in a column, or is it misty?
CLARICE: From what I understand it could be either.
MARISA: Get out. That is so cool.
CLARICE: Right?
MARISA: If it’s Marvel superhero status, I definitely have to catch a video of that. Are there videos and pictures on the world wide web?
CLARICE: So all of the pictures were the boring pictures of misty and they looked kind of serene. I didn’t see any of cool Marvel videos.
MARISA: All right.
CLARICE: But some of them talked about that kind of violent whoosh and there was nothing to back it up.
MARISA: Okay. A violent whoosh.
CLARICE: That’s a scientific term.
MARISA: All right. Well, in looking at the photos if you Google California atmospheric river 2024 it is a lot of meteorological information and some, what looks like, schematics or aerial photos of various tragic areas in California as a result of these events, but I’m not seeing anything like a live-action shot of the actual atmospheric river. Okay.
CLARICE: I couldn’t find anything.
MARISA: So these things are kicking ass in California, it looks like, and not in a good way.
CLARICE: Yeah. I mean, they are throughout the country. We are really lately hearing about them in just California right now because it’s really popular, but a couple of other things to keep in mind is even though right now they are kind of getting a violent rap they are most often pretty weak and can be really crucial to keep the water supply moving.
MARISA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I read about this. Tell me more.
CLARICE: Most of the time an atmospheric river can move the same volume as the Mississippi river. That feels giant.
MARISA: What?
CLARICE: Yes.
MARISA: What do you mean it can —
CLARICE: It moves as much water as the Mississippi river does in a slower —
MARISA: Oh, you mean in terms of flow, not volume?
CLARICE: Yes.
MARISA: Or maybe both?
CLARICE: They said it’s the same size as the Mississippi river, so I’m wondering if — and it’s in terms of water vapor, so I don’t know if that’s measured in the same volume because vapor seems smaller.
MARISA: Okay.
CLARICE: Hashtag not a scientist.
MARISA: I had a meeting last night where we were talking about the ideal gas law. Don’t ask me why. [inaudible]. But not related to what you’re talking about at all, but flow and volume, I’d be curious to know more about that factoid. I keep using that word today, factoid. I’d be curious to know more about that in terms of are they talking about volume and flow, or is it just —
CLARICE: Oh, okay. So they’re saying —
[0:06:01] MARISA: — the writer saying visualize the size of the Mississippi.
CLARICE: That’s convenient. I have a fact. I have the factoid up right here and it says equivalent to 7.5 to 15 times the average flow of water at the mouth of the Mississippi river.
MARISA: Holy. That’s a lot of water.
CLARICE: That’s a ton of water.
MARISA: Yeah. And that’s in the air —
CLARICE: In the air.
MARISA: — zooming around above California. And then eventually what happens, the temperature rises or falls and then it starts raining?
CLARICE: And then, exactly, it turns to rain —
MARISA: Wow.
CLARICE: — which is why right now California is experiencing record rainfalls, in some areas over nine inches in the span of a week —
MARISA: Damn.
CLARICE: — which is insane. And then that brings up this follow-up conversation which I haven’t heard much of, but in California they’re talking a lot about having an El Nino versus an La Nina.
MARISA: Yes.
CLARICE: Have you heard about that?
MARISA: I have.
CLARICE: I haven’t.
MARISA: And it has to do with the source, right, of the weather front?
CLARICE: Yes.
MARISA: El Nino versus La Nina.
CLARICE: And then it talks about the different characteristics and an El Nino is a warm wet winter in Southern California where a La Nina is a cool dry condition. I had no idea.
MARISA: It originates in Africa, right?
CLARICE: I didn’t get to that part.
MARISA: Oh, all right.
CLARICE: That didn’t show up in my research.
MARISA: All righty. And then I read something about how the atmospheric river will also dump more snow in California which has the positive impact of during the summer when the snow melts it rejuvenates the drought water supply situation that they have going on, so, you know, it’s not good, but.
CLARICE: But it can have some — when it’s within moderation it’s not terrible because it is that idea of it’s bringing over water. It’s circulating. When things are working as they’re supposed to, it’s one way to keep the water flow going and, you know, keep that cycle, but as of right now that’s not happening. It’s just constant dumping. It’s like the faucet’s been left on leading to the landslides, the record rain, tornadoes. There’s been more tornadoes in these past two months than have been before.
MARISA: Wow.
CLARICE: It’s crazy.
MARISA: Do we know why these events are occurring?
CLARICE: I couldn’t find any causes. They’re saying that the warmer weather has been a huge factor.
MARISA: Climate change.
CLARICE: Exactly. I’m not hearing one specific event. I think it’s a combination of the warmer weather leading to a chain reaction of a bunch of different things. And that’s also going into something that they’re calling weather whiplash. It’s this — because there’s a rise in temperature, there’s a shift in weather. You’re getting colder days shifting dramatically into warmer days. That dramatic drop and/or rise is causing this flux and that like — whether it’s a dramatic shift down or up isn’t good. Things are supposed to work in that gradual space and that time to rise or fall slowly isn’t happening and that’s been a huge problem.
[0:09:53] MARISA: We are, for better or worse, seeing firsthand the initial impacts of global temperature rising.
CLARICE: Uh-huh.
MARISA: In a vacuum it’s kind of neat science-wise. However, living during this time is scary and I’m very curious to see what states like California and even Rhode Island in this area are doing, are going to do to respond because you’re not going to solve this problem. It’s not going away, so what do you do.
CLARICE: Yeah. Even in new England alone the average atmosphere is up — our moisture is up four percent because of rise in temperature.
MARISA: Yeah.
CLARICE: And now it’s that situation of what do we do with that. That’s going to result in increased rain, wetter springs, warmer summers, more humid temperatures and/or, when it is colder when we do have that dramatic decrease with not a lot of time when we experience that whiplash, heavier snowfalls.
MARISA: Yeah.
CLARICE: How do we adjust for that?
MARISA: I think we cry —
CLARICE: Yeah.
MARISA: — for our species’ failure to address these issues before they became issues. And maybe the government gives out canoes for the summer.
CLARICE: Just like in Vermont. We did an episode about that.
MARISA: That’s right. In Rhode Island the state is planning for climate change by enacting statutes and programs that are aimed at resiliency and so, like I was saying, you’re not going to prevent these events. The only thing you can do is try to employ strategies that limit your risk, building any new building with the first floor being empty and buildings on stilts so that when these storms come in from the ocean the water has a place to go underneath buildings.
CLARICE: Yeah. That’s actually —
MARISA: We’re seeing a lot of that.
CLARICE: That’s interesting that you said that. I read an article from The Boston Globe and it was — I wanted to — since we talked so much or we were researching so much about California’s atmospheric river, I wanted to see have there been atmospheric rivers in new England. Is that just a west coast thing. Is that just a warm weather or warm climate event and it is common in new England, as well.
MARISA: Really?
CLARICE: Yeah. There’s been apparently three within our winter.
MARISA: Huh.
CLARICE: We’ve had a ton of rain.
[0:13:00] MARISA: But an atmospheric river?
CLARICE: Yeah.
MARISA: Hmm. I’ve not heard of it in this area.
CLARICE: Neither have I. So this Boston Globe article — and it’s funny that you talked about, you know, avoiding putting things on the first floor or thinking about stilts. And of course we’ll link the research in the show notes, but this article specifically, it was a bit tongue in cheek, but they talked a bit about, you know, making sure that your sump pump is working or noticing that your basements are flooding and how New England that that was. And it was that reoccurring theme of basements will continue to flood more and more because of this change, so to hear you bring that up so organically when that was this thread throughout the article —
MARISA: Yeah.
CLARICE: That’s going to be the first thing that we notice as we get our own atmospheric rivers —
MARISA: Oh, great.
CLARICE: — in a more noticeable way, you know, in a thing that’s becoming more part of our vocabulary.
MARISA: Yeah. Okay.
CLARICE: Another thing that the atmospheric rivers are going to be affecting is the fishing industry.
MARISA: Oh, Jesus.
CLARICE: Because they tend to bring in warmer rain and they’re going to rise the water levels a bit more, things like crustaceans are going to want to go hang out and breed in colder weather, so they’re going to go further up north.
MARISA: Frick.
CLARICE: They’re going to go — yeah. That’s my last bit of bad news because that’s the end of my notes.
MARISA: Yeah. All right. Like the fishing industry hasn’t gotten enough —
CLARICE: I know.
MARISA: — torture lately.
CLARICE: Get out your wellies.
MARISA: Great.
CLARICE: Eat your last lobster roll.
MARISA: Okay. Look, you know me, I bum out all the time on this stuff, but, yeah, like I said, we’re on the frontlines of seeing the first effects and these warnings are no longer warnings. I mean, they’re coming true.
CLARICE: Uh-huh. Is this the year that I need to learn how to swim?
MARISA: You don’t know how to swim?
CLARICE: Absolutely not.
MARISA: But you can breathe fire.
CLARICE: I don’t know if our listeners knew that.
MARISA: Oh.
CLARICE: On that note, everybody, write in with your comments, questions, and topics for discussion.
MARISA: Clarice is a fire breather, everybody..
CLARICE: Past life.
MARISA: Professional.
CLARICE: No.
MARISA: Yes.
CLARICE: Never charged a dollar.
MARISA: Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us, let me just throw out the e-mail here because I seem to be the only one that can say it correctly.
[0:15:46] CLARICE: Yes.
MARISA: It’s Marisa — M-a-r-i-s-a —info@DesautelBrowning.com. That’s my e-mail. Feel free to reach out.
CLARICE: And you can find us on the socials on Facebook, Instagram, X, and watch our videos on YouTube. We are Desautel Browning Law. Thanks so much.
MARISA: Thanks, everybody.
